Curse

ensoriki · Feb 04, 2011, 03:43 AM // 03:43

FA & JQ are dying? Could have fooled me,t it's what 2 minutes to get in if you need to wait?
Big deal.
Thats like at any time of day, doesn't bother me at all. Press the button, make a quick thing to eat and I'm already in.

Skyy High · Feb 04, 2011, 04:08 AM // 04:08

If I weren't busy with the Canthan New Year I'd take a few runs in Ra and see just how bad synching is. From my experiences, the last update did kill it as best as is possible; if you only have 10 people entering in a given 30 second period, of course you'll be able to get on the same team as your friends some of the time. It's a heck of a lot better than it used to be, at least.

galactic · Feb 04, 2011, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Your judgment has serious flaws.

Luminarus · Feb 04, 2011, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Multiply everyones current gladiator score by 5, multiply rank requirements for gladiator title by somewhere between 3-5, and randomise the RA waiting list. Syncing problem is solved. Gladiator title is solved in terms of people not wanting to fight with 4 warriors/2 monks because they know taht the team is going to disband and no chance of a glad.

Sure ur still gonna get the occasional 2-4 monk team thats not gonna resign but hey thats the definition of RANDOM.

Also if doing it that way, potentially randomise teams after every match like they did with Costume Brawl in halloween. Not a fan of this because its good to have a team u get along with, and meet people rather then hi, kill, bye. Maybe randomise it after 5 or 10 wins so that there isnt an OP team that just creams every random team.

KPEATOP · Feb 04, 2011, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Random Arena is the only option if you want to play PvP - press the button, join a team. In my own eyes this should be the best format for starters so it should encourage them in some way.
- 1 glad point per win is a good idea. You see the result of your effort after 1/2 mins. and in some way it motivates you not to leave your party.
* If they put it into action, they should redo the glad rank but it`s not such a problem.
- Usage of propper builds. Sometimes we see OP builds and people take advantage of them, but what i really want to see is people using builds that are propper for the class that they are running.
Example: Fast casting mesmers that use ele fire skill. Ok in some updates that might work, but most of the time i want to see VoR/PB dom mesmer with good shutdowns, or illu mesmers with drain skills or degen skills. The game should encourage the usage of those builds, because this class is ment to do that. And i really want to see that starters sort this problem in Random Arena.
* The upper statement is the thing that i want to see and so far i haven`t found a solution for myself.

TA/CA (glad reworked) leave the sync/build abusers with some sort of a format designed for them. I don`t mind that and i think that a lot of people will share the same opinion.

When it comes to syncing i have one question that i want to ask. Syncers join a random empty District and press the join button at the same time. What will happen if we have only 2/3 District in Random Arena that are full and in which people press the join button every second? No Jap, Korea, Intern. district...

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 04, 2011, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Also, is syncing really that much of a problem? Even at off hours I don't see them more than once every couple of dozen matches.

Well idk. In my experience you basically can't get 25 outside 6pm-1am euro timeframe. I played for about an hour around noon yesterday and ran into some 4 different syncs. I guess that was fortunate as my streak kept getting cut short at 5-6 wins so I didn't have to experience the more annoying loss at 24.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KPEATOP

When it comes to syncing i have one question that i want to ask. Syncers join a random empty District and press the join button at the same time. What will happen if we have only 2/3 District in Random Arena that are full and in which people press the join button every second? No Jap, Korea, Intern. district...

Changing districts doesn't help anyway, that's the part they "fixed". The reason it's so easy to sync and why it's also getting easier and easier is because the playerbase is shrinking. When there's 1 euro dist with 10 people and 1 amer with 20 people entering it's not that hard to get in with your friends. Even at peak hours it's pretty easy to sync with at least one friend.

I sympathise with the people wanting to play 4v4 with their friends, I would probably play TA more than RA if they brought it back too. But it would be nice to actually have a truly random RA for people to mess around in when your friends aren't online to play more organised play(gvg/ab). I don't think FA/JQ are good alternatives btw.

Missing HB · Feb 04, 2011, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Seriously , just make 1 win = 1 point and make title requirements higher. Then , noone will care of syncers , nor of bsurgers or of having no healer...

*lemming* · Feb 04, 2011, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by KPEATOP

- 1 glad point per win is a good idea. You see the result of your effort after 1/2 mins. and in some way it motivates you not to leave your party.
* If they put it into action, they should redo the glad rank but it`s not such a problem.

I outlined this idea for a reworking of the Gladiator title a while back:

1 point for each win from 1-5
2 points for each win from 6-10
etc. up to 5 for 21-25 wins

and multiply the title track requirement and all previously earned points by 5.

Experienced players will be gaining points at only a slightly higher rate assuming that most runs are long, while most players will have their rate of glad point acquisition noticeably increased.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KPEATOP

- Usage of propper builds. Sometimes we see OP builds and people take advantage of them, but what i really want to see is people using builds that are propper for the class that they are running.
Example: Fast casting mesmers that use ele fire skill. Ok in some updates that might work, but most of the time i want to see VoR/PB dom mesmer with good shutdowns, or illu mesmers with drain skills or degen skills. The game should encourage the usage of those builds, because this class is ment to do that. And i really want to see that starters sort this problem in Random Arena.

There's already an incentive for that - winning more matches, thereby getting more glad points/faction per unit of time. Too bad people seem to love running bad builds just for the sake of being contrary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KPEATOP

When it comes to syncing i have one question that i want to ask. Syncers join a random empty District and press the join button at the same time. What will happen if we have only 2/3 District in Random Arena that are full and in which people press the join button every second? No Jap, Korea, Intern. district...

Syncing right now works because everyone clicking the button (regardless of district) is put onto the same list of players in chronological order - basically the same as what you're suggesting. It's not linked to district anymore.

Randomizing the queue would solve this issue.

urania · Feb 04, 2011, 08:56 AM // 08:56

no need to kill off TA title too. RA ought to have a split title from start on because it was essentially a lesser format in comp to TA. after TA's removal, glad title should have been frozen (like HB's title), and RA ought to get a new one, possibly using lem's point system.

but otherwise...keep your hands off TA title. rawr.

JONO51 · Feb 04, 2011, 09:46 AM // 09:46

i'd prefer they put back ta and hb, but anet doesnt seem to want to give any ground on this issue despite codex being a clear failure.

so the next best option is just the whole 1/point a win thing to deter syncers.

chullster · Feb 10, 2011, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by -V-

This has got to the the most selfish idea ever. There are many regulars in the RA community who play RA to get a high glad rank - and there is nothing wrong with that. By allowing a 1 point per win system you basically make the gladiator rank nothing more then a title where time > any form of skill. For instance, you could play a wammo and win the first match 25 times. At least to get the higher glad points when you need a win streak, which generally means too many bad players in a group wont get there that often.

The best idea is to remove glad points from RA, reinstate TA and make a new title for RA called the "PvP wannabes" title track. That is what they should've done in the first place.

I bolded the two parts that go together.
Some where on guru there's a picture of a player with 25 wins and not a single skill on their bar.

A high glad rank now just means you synced with your friends against what you call "PvP Wannabes", that takes no skill what so ever, other than being able to countdown from 3.

Players from sync guilds are generally terrible as they get used to other team members holding their hands. The 25 runs I always remember, are the ones where the team is non-meta and doesn't have a monk or resto rit. Had 25's with a healer too, but they're nothing special, so it's not memorable and took less effort.

Cantos · Feb 10, 2011, 10:55 AM // 10:55

This. This is why we need to delete all PvP titles. It is endlessly vexing to me that in the year of our Lord two thousand eleven, there exists a post on the Guild Wars Guru dot com Gladiator's Arena forum that complains that giving 1 point per win would turn the glorious Gladiator title into a meaningless time over skill grind. That their newb stomping title actually shows their legendary proficiency.

Does it matter that you can't actually lose title progress for playing poorly, and that your progress will always go up the longer you play? No. Does it matter that you get dont more progress for beating harder opponents and less for beating easier ones? No. Does it matter that the people feverishly farming this title are gaming the system to organise their team against disorganised teams? No, of course not. Our mighty prowess eclipses the sun as we farm PvP Wannabes in Random Arena for Gladiator points.

Why exactly does Guild Wars have this prioblem. Do people playing TF2 need an emote to flash over the corpses of the pwnt based on the number of acheivements they've unlocked? Do clans require a minimum number of hats before you can join? I blame MMOs. People playing FPSs don't have the idea you can farm your way to success. Or if they do, an AK round to the head by someone who knew you were coming out that door is sure to disabuse them of the notion.

I appreciate that not everyone remembers a time before titles. I do. Random Arena was fun, and for fun. You jumped in without needing to set up your team for ages, you played against some randoms. Maybe you lost, maybe you won, maybe you defeated Jesus in rock-paper-scissors. IT WAS FUN OK. You didn't need to reroll your team to maximise your hourly gains. It wasn't about watching some stupid progress bar go up.

The sensible way forward is give everyone 1 point per win, and reroll the teams every match. Syncing is now a waste of time, because you'll lose your gimpy friends next match. You don't need to leave the match as soon as you realise you and your team can't get to twenty five, you only have to win one match together, then they'll be gone. We don't need dishonorable any more, because no-one needs to reroll their team until they get a twenty-fiver. We don't need to worry about leeches any more, because we can just leave.

As sensible as this solution is, it still leaves the basic problem. People hopelessly conflate grinding with skill. Delete all PvP titles.

*lemming* · Feb 10, 2011, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Like it or not, people respond well to progressing in addition to having fun playing the game, regardless of how trivial what they're progressing in is.

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 10, 2011, 11:08 AM // 11:08

What do you mean "respond well"? Do you not remember the time before titles?

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 10, 2011, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by -V-

Does it matter, does it matter,... does it matter as human beings we want to distinguish ourselves to be better than others? Why do you think people want to be famous? Maybe you aren't competitive - in general pvp players are competitive and want to be the best. It's human nature to want to be better than your neighbours. Human nature 101, it's why title grind works to keep people playing.

You left this part out of your quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantos

This. This is why we need to delete all PvP titles. It is endlessly vexing to me that in the year of our Lord two thousand eleven, there exists a post on the Guild Wars Guru dot com Gladiator's Arena forum that complains that giving 1 point per win would turn the glorious Gladiator title into a meaningless time over skill grind. That their newb stomping title actually shows their legendary proficiency.

If people go to RA to be famous they have a problem. As this title continually degrades I look at people with high glad titles more and more the way I do people with high codex titles. Loud mouth dipshits that confuse grinding and cheating with skill. Most of your syncer friends aren't skilled btw, unless of course you measure skill based on the average ra player.

These sync guilds SyNc, 1-8, RA and whatever are a pretty sorry bunch tbh.

Killed u man · Feb 10, 2011, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Wait, wait: GW 2011 there's actually people who believe gladiator title holds any value?

Cool. Next up recruiting GvG players according to GWAMM titles.

You don't have to be good to win in RA. The reasons are obvious:

The largest factor of winning is the 3 other people. (aka 75% of the other skills) If you haven't got a Monk, for starters, you probably won't get alot of wins. If you have 2 or 3 Monks on the other hand, and the enemy team has got 1 Monk, it's unlikely you'll win too, as getting a kill will be incredibly hard.

What do we have after that?

Ow yeah, the bar you play. Since RA is random, you have no clue what you're going to face, or what you're going to team up with. Hence the best bars to run are usually some universal buttonbash bar rather than a highly specialized bar.

For this reason, hexes, any form of shutdown and direct (buttonbash) damage is most effective, aka any bar that doesn't require coordination, but rather just the player not being a complete retard. (Not putting empathy on Monk and backfire on warriors doesn't make you a good player, it simply doesn't make you a retarded player)

RA is flawed by nature, and that's because the balance is flawed. For starters, a team with 3 damage dealers and a dedicated healer will beat a team with 4 damage dealers given the healer knows what he's doing. Uncoordinated gimmick bars will always beat uncoordinated niche, specialized bars.

RA stands closer to PvE than PvP for reasons mentioned before. You simply go in, hope you have a Monk and your bar lines up with the 2 other damage dealers' bars.

Missing HB · Feb 10, 2011, 04:22 PM // 16:22

The problem is that titles that could hold value , or could make someone proud of himself ( i.e commander 7+, glad8+, champ 5-6+, etc..) lost all value after some illogical updates and non-acting ( especially HB quest , degenerative metas , syncing guilds , etc..) I won't mention codex title which never held any value ...

Actually , i think RA at begin was made in order to be some " test-builds" arena. It could fit at the time because there weren't that many OP builds and skills. Now , can you really test when opponent team has 80% of time bsurger , blood necro and mo/w ?

Reverend Dr · Feb 10, 2011, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Like it or not, people respond well to progressing in addition to having fun playing the game, regardless of how trivial what they're progressing in is.

The problem in this case is that glad title progression is the only thing to which the majority of RA players are responding.

mage767 · Feb 10, 2011, 05:44 PM // 17:44

They should basically use a system similar to how Starcraft 2 players are ranked:

Your rating progresses based on the Win/Loss ratio, and who you fight against and win/lose. If you face better ranked players and win, your points go up signifcantly, while theirs takes a bigger dip, since a less skilled player (guided by the ranking system) has a lesser chance of winning against a better foe.

So:
1. Experience rank: Based on the total number of games played and won.
2. Skill rank: Progresses with higher Win/Loss ratio and beating better skilled players. Skill rank is initialized after first 50 matches.

Therefore:
1. One can be a really exp. RA player with a shitty W/L ratio, hence not very skilled.
2. One can be highly skilled player but not have much experience in RA unlike the true grinders.

Looks fair to me.

urania · Feb 10, 2011, 07:41 PM // 19:41

i knew the TA community and well, excluding those, the rest (with some exceptions from the former) are just baddie RA synch kings.